Production CMS

Try Grav cms for HTML.


Gav was developed by the original team of gavickpro, a joomla template club that had their own framework.
Their joomla framework started strong but was not able to keep up with the competition. Their pricing approach didn’t help them either…
Sad really because they were good design wise.

I just replaced one Joomla website with a WordPress site. (Virtuemart → WooCommerce)
Everything else remained the same.

WordPress is way way way slower. (response time ms)

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Is it just me or is the website unavailable?

It seems Joomla definitly has earned its’ place among the big CMS although I have barely used it since most of my clients and me are used to or specifically asking for WordPress.
Remember though, Woocommerce is a plugin of WP. Anyway, even though Joomla is perhaps faster, I have been happy with WP. Surely, websites might load for (a “whole”!) 2 seconds on WP but most of my clients Websites’ are catered to people that either have the time to wait 2 seconds or won’t visit the website anyway (a nice way of saying older ppl). I agree that WP sites can have shitty performance but your avg WP site still has a load time I wouldn’t feel comfortable complaing about (as far as real life scenarios and not pure statistics are concerned) given that Divi Page Builder and other quality plugins make life just so much easier. Security with WP is also heavily plugin dependant I guess. As far as performance goes it also depends on the shared host. HostMantis has been performing great for WP sites from my experience.

I am not saying WP is the best. I am not saying Joomla is worse or doesnt have a page builder (Joomla SP Builder Pro looks nice). Just saying that I’m happy with WP and consider non bloated WP sites still to load in a reasonable time.

Well… I was expecting for the response time to get worse, but not 10x worse.
It’s literally 10x. I just checked the graph and Joomla response time was 402ms , WordPress is now at 4158ms. And by the way, the design is a copy of the Joomla website. I used Elementor Pro to mimic it.

I’m starting to think this was a huge waste of time. The reason I migrated to WordPress it’s so much easier to syn products with Facebook, Bots and so on. WooCommerce looks nice and has a lot of features so that pulled me in. Mostly the integrations part.

I’ve been using Joomla for years and WordPress for less than a year, but already have some sites done from simple landing pages to eCommerce (ie. this site has about 900 skus), corporate websites and so on.

Here’s my view.
Multi-language: Joomla wins handsdown. It’s not even a contest. I used WPLM and it sucks in comparison so Joomla native multi-language capability. I can’t even describe how easy it is to have a multi-language Joomla website, it’s literally like 5 steps; enable, install the languages you want, assign a language switch module, create the menu, [optional] create relationships between items, and you’re done.

Speed: Well… do I even have to say more?

Security: I never had a Joomla website hacked and I’ve been using Joomla since v1.6 or 1.7, the only, plugin I use is to complement Joomla in this department is Joomla Admin Tools.

Page Builders: WordPress wins this one by a long long margin. Only “recentily” that a few Pagebuilders started to come up for Joomla like Quix and SP Page Builder, I’ve been using the later one for the better part of the last 2 years. It’s nice but not as nice as Elementor Pro.

Ecosystem: WordPress wins this one hands down, even if its safer to install a Joomla Plugin. There’s everything for WordPress, it’s an amazing ecosystem.

Template Customization outside of Pagebuilders: I personally think that Joomla wins this one. I extremely easy to complement a theme, with whatever you want via FTP. Sames goes for plugins.

3rd Party Integrations: WordPress wins this one, Joomla can’t even rise up to compete. “everuone” does a plugin for WordPress, the same ain’t true for Joomla.

Summary. Joomla is faster, if you can take the time tand have the skill, to build what you need then Joomla is the option to go for. Adding HTML, CSS, PHP to any page is a matter of seconds and you don’t need a plugin, you can literally add a new HTML module and add your code there then assign to which page/position it should load in.
If you want to build the website faster, cheaper, and mostly with pagebuilders, then WordPress is the one.

PS: I I have an active SP Page Builder subscription, if you want to try it out, let me know and I’ll send it to you.


Reminder for me to reply later when I have time :slight_smile:

Thanks for the thorough insight. Will have a look later!

This is the speed for my WordPress site built with Divi and Elegant Themes Extra theme:

(with the default WP theme, the load time was around 300ms) :wink:

So a good software stack, a decent hardware, and a good configuration can easily get you a quite fast WordPress site.


My point was that I kept everything the same but the CMS. So any difference can’t be justified with the hardware.

So following up on your post it definitely seems like for you Joomla will be the better pic. Is that a client’s site or your personal website if I may ask? The reason being that I’d be interested how your clients are dealing with Joomla overall. One of the reasons WP has such a big market share is because it is very easy to handle for the average client (which I kinda agree on but can’t compare to Joomla since I’ve never used it). Just like you have made a kinda good summary of the pros and cons of both I found
this comparison by Kinsta good, too (and YES, Kinsta offers managed WP hosting so the article is also a bit biased but still a “fair” comparison imho since it also features Joomlas advantages over WP). I would definitly enjoy testing outthat SP Page Builder one day although right now I am just too busy with other stuff. It’ll be interesting to see, since I’ve never touched Joomla anyway. I don’t think I’ll hard switch to Joomla afterwards neither will I migrate my clients since WordPress is really just fine for them, but it is still interesting to see what else is out on the market and perhaps use for personal projects or get accustomed to just in case a future client wants it :slight_smile:

Kind regards,

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Depending on the page builder and server setup that’s possibly where the speed issue comes from.

I had a site once that I ended up re-themeing for the client. Disabled the page builder plugin and TTFB dropped from 5 seconds to half a second.

First I clicked reply to this, then realized this was an old thread, recently revived …
TextPattern seems kinda nice, though, depending on your preferences. I’m about to play more with it … :slight_smile:

Grav, HTMLy, Subrion, Bolt CMS, October CMS … there’s a lot of CMSes, and they all have different pros and cons. I liked all of those, yet only have one of these (HTMLy) left in production now …

Holy … In my experience, when we moved away from Joomla some years ago (1.6 or 1.7, I think, but might be wrong), we had a slight performance increase by moving to WP.
More importantly, customer were much more happy, they found the Joomla interface to be too complicated.

I don’t particularly like Wordpress, but I tolerate it, as it works, and with some fancy theme/builder (like Divi), my customers are able to operate it themselves to a larger degree.

That said, I just setup a site using Hugo (, a static page generator. Really nice experience, easy to create own theme and great performance. Sites loads really quickly. What’s more I can host it for free (Netlify, GitHub pages etc), and even get a nice/fancy Web Based CMS for free through, giving customers an easy enough panel to add posts/make some changes.
I’m actually impressed. :sunglasses:


The bias in there is clear, but I also think they don’t know Joomla all that much, for instance, they say the user needs to setup categories before using it as opposed to WordPress, and in fact, just like WordPress, you get one category out of the box, named uncategorized.

My experience with clients.
It’s clear that a lot of people are used to WordPress, and some agencies feel lost with Joomla. But most clients don’t really care about the CMS unless they want to have a blog. But Joomla can shine here because - again without a plugin - you can customize Joomla Admin dashboard so it’s easy for the client to find what he wants to use.

Note: Joomla 4 brings a lot of UI changes, it’s becoming way more shinny. And probably closer to WordPress, hopefully they won’t sacrifice the way stuff is organized, which is much better.

I think Joomla marketing plans sucked for too many year, and not there so muc catching up to do that its hard.

I also think that one of their strenghts ends up damaging their marketing. I’m referring to how they manage their plugins directory. They banned developers for requesting reviews, not updating frequently enough and don’t show the number of installs. They also review all entries.
This contributed to a safer plugins directory but smaller, which then makes Joomla less atractive to users, and with less users, less attractive to developers.
It took them till recently to offer free Joomla websites, which is arguably the way WordPress became so widely known.
Another mistake is that they focused in developers for too many years, only now they are switching gears to users that don’t want to hire someone.

PS: This was a way larger post, but I trimed it out as I don’t want to start discussing this as it was a religion :rofl:

It’s a whole different ballgame with 3.9. So much so that there isn’t even an upgrade path from v1.x to v3.x.
The UI also became progressively better, and v4 will showcase a completely different UI. Looks nicer but we’ll see.

Spin up a free v3 or v4 beta, I bet you’ll like it.

To me the perfect stack of plugins for Joomla v3 is;

Done. The needs of about 90% of all website you’re going to build are covered with the above.


You make solid points. Thanks for youe feedback. I also almost ended up discussing this as it was a religon haha. I am sure we can agree that there is ups and downs for both and it comes down to the use case a lot, too. Let’s be happy to have both options to use available to us, for free. Also, let’s not forget Grav, HTMLy, Hugo etc :slight_smile:
Creating websites quickly and efficiently sure has come a long way compared to back in the days.

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